Page 1 of 1

Explain American Entertainment

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:43 pm
by seedy
sheltered ignorant american thread #2 for the day :mrgreen:

what is your view of american entertainment as compared to that from your own country?

my sheltered impression - i feel like we're relatively stars of the world (with england taking a somewhat close 2nd place). our biggest music stars are (generally) cherished globally as well as our actors

conversely i couldn't even begin to detail who the biggest music or movie stars are from nearly any country other than my own
as example - poland's biggest pop star. this person is zero doubt an absolute no name to nearly all americans.
and beyond this - how do polish folk view this "biggest polish pop star" against someone like justin timberlake?
my limited impression tells me that in many countries the "biggest homegrown star" is often praised well below a number of their american counterparts

now to be clear - i'm thinking on a generalized global level. obviously in some cases the homegrown star may be bigger than anything the USA puts out......but i'm looking at all countries in the big picture - not individualized exceptions

another thing that i've pondered is the language barrier. i get that english is taught all over the world. but if your native tongue is different - what is it like to appreciate so much entertainment that comes via a foreign language. is it that english just "isn't that foreign"???
i mean i listen to magma, can (does that count lol) and some mid-eastern stuff with foreign vocals......i've seen some movies with subtitles.
but all said i have a hard time really getting into most stuff that comes in a foreign language.
perhaps like i'm saying it's because these language are 100% foreign as opposed to your own experience with english.
that said even being partially fluid in another language i don't think would personally be enough for me to "break the barrier" into enjoyment

much like the other "clueless american" thread i just created - i'm having a hard time explaining what i'm asking or getting at. so hopefully this was enough to just get the conversation sparked ;)

Re: Explain American Entertainment

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:50 pm
by Ross
There's a common idea in the UK that we are suffering 'Americanisation' - not only in political matters, but cultural ones. Certainly, away from shopping channels, we show far, far more American stuff on TV than British these days.

Re: Explain American Entertainment

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:10 am
by Pandemonium
Well, it's more than idea, it's generally TRUE that the world is suffering from 'Americanisation' - especially in cultural areas - or to be more precise - POP culture in general - and UK is among the least Americanized actually. (being rich enough and intelligent enough to sprout it's own movements)

Seedy, you're killing me man - with your 'typical clueless murican' approach :) - you know there's this thing called Google right :)

If you can't fathom The World pop culture (or entertainment as you call it) versus USA - look at it statistically, USA's population (about 320 million) is barely 4,5 % of the World. While it is true that USA is the POP king of the World, the rest of the world has a lot more for exploring, and what you'll find is more often then not - is better than what USA has to offer. But, pop industry & ultra-marketing are on your side, massive media coverage also, so we are where we are.

seedy wrote:what is your view of american entertainment as compared to that from your own country?

- My country has no entertainment system :) just like about two-thirds of the countries in the world. Therefore - the media copies the world POP, which is basically the USA pop - which becomes more ugly and more retarded and more pointless every year - if you ask me.

- BUT you have to make an important difference here. A difference between POP industry movies and music (I don't like to call it music at all but I will, for understandings sake) AND movies and music as art - which they are in the most essential meaning.

If you look at the POP scene - then USA is about 85% of it - directly in indirectly. There are other POP scenes, as you say UK is second (but not close) then some other EU countries like Germany, France, Italy, etc which have occasional pop product. Then there's Korean pop (GANGNAM STYLE!), Japan, Australia, and if we can count Canada as separated pop entity from USA (I kid, I kid) :) - But the fact remains that no one comes even close to the massive POP distribution of the USA - it's so massive - it's in the TOP5 earning industries in your country. English language (it's not easiest spoken by most people) is No.1 on Earth because of your POP export. Being limited to English pop and/or at only is a sad mistake though... I know languages can be tough, but once you get a hang of some basic structure things, get good subtitles - it's not bad at all.

Then there's local POP stars - these exist in every country - no matter how small or poor. And they are WORSE than anything you can imagine :) Poor copies of the World POP, mixed with local folk usually, trying to be witty, funny, sexy... horrible... just horrible. But they have their audience. As you said, the language barrier. People who don't speak English usually listen to local POP shit. Some of them have millions of followers.

- Best local example for the Balkans - a silicon singer called CECA. She fills stadiums in the local 8-9 countries, get more audience (locally) than Eric Clapton, Santana, Placebo, One Republic, Justin, you-name-it. And now one of her horrible hits: ( )

Now imagine how BIG are local POP stars in countries 3 to 8 times bigger than USA, like India or China. If they work on export they'll be as good as US pop in 10 years... but on the other hand - it's better they don't.

--- --- ---

POP aside, movies and music viewed as art is a whole different story.

Every region has hidden gems and sub-cultures that are absolutely amazing to explore.
I could write about this for days.
In 2012-2013 I explored - region by region - almost the entire World for folklore music & modern day sub-cultured music - absolutely amazing!
- The genesis of African beats (the Mali region)
- The Egyptian half-degree singing
- Sacred Spirit Indians music of central America.
- The Spirit of Uluru (Music from The Australian Aborigine)
- Irish and Spanish folklore
- Tibetan Incantations, The Meditative Sound of Buddhists
- Chinese Classical music
- Ethnic Minority Music of Northwest Xinjiang, China
- Siamese Classical Music
- Khampagar Monasteryā€ˇ Monks from Tibet
- Korean Traditional Music, Gayagum Sanjo Collection
- India & Pakistan - don't get me started - this is where ALL music originates from!
- The Gamelan music of Bali

- not to mention East Europe, that's like local for me - Gregorian chant singing that has note system 10 times more complex than the traditional 7 notes we know.
- off-beat music, local, Indian, Brazilian...

I'm tired now... but there's a lot lot more...

Re: Explain American Entertainment

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:51 pm
by seedy
great stuff pande and you surely are grasping what i was getting at

def talking more along the lines of pop culture - i wanted to use this word but for whatever reason neglected
i think the gray area here is what is defined as "pop"
here we could call it the bubblegum stuff like ariana grande and timberlake.....or you could apply it more to the word "popular" and then you are also including rock acts, rap, metal, electronic etc etc. just stuff that is super hyped, highly promoted, highly tweeted etc.

when i posed this question i meant the latter....not just the pop "sound" but all popularized music/movies/entertainment

really great description you wrote there pande and i must say that google really can't give me the answer you just did.
i'm always the first to admit how myopic my view of the world is on an international forum like this. i believe this is a common american trait. we're self centered, self absorbed - stuck in our bubble. it's not easy to branch out and learn more but as you can see i make my small attempts :)

i'll have even more knowledge when i make my international tour and visit england and macedonia :P

so....taking my latter definition....that pop includes rock music, heavy music, diva music, rap, RnB etc. etc.
would your statements still apply the same?

that generally speaking aside from let's just say "better" music.....moreso true to art etc.....that all of the above is dominated by the USA industry? and your guess is that this is driven more by marketing than anything else?

also you left out another big angle if you care to expand more - MOVIES
again....i couldn't name a single "biggest movie star" from any country other than the ones who have made a name for themselves here. on the flip side i feel like pretty much all of our biggest movie stars are huge internationally as well?

really liked the end of your post there of your digital musical travels over the world
you should make like a 1-2 disc mix off all those forms i know i would grab it 8-)

Re: Explain American Entertainment

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:22 pm
by Pandemonium
I know you meant the POP in general, I just sticked to music because that's what I know best :)
- The same principles pretty much apply on the other pop 'arts'

Yeah, I know the struggle - is pop just the slimy industry hits like Justin - or is POP everything that hits the top-charts ?
- It depends who you talk to. The first definition always applies but the second one applies if you view the world from the hard-core point or talk to a hard-core person or a person that's really into art his whole life.

If anything that hits the charts is pop - then I say - pop is good sometimes, good things appear (though less and less and less).
- I like not to think of pop that way, but call the quality stuff that gets widely recognized -- mainstream. FSOL were certainly mainstream electronic music in the 90s (some may even call PNG popular techno - but I certainly wouldn't) -- today it's hard to tell what they are - probably somewhere on the border of mainstream and underground.

Underground is also hard to define. The hard-core definition is that anything that reaches audience through media like radio or the net is Not underground -- which is a very strict definition. I'd say underground classify local non-commercial movements that live through clubbing, bootlegs, club concerts, and spread on word-to-mouth -- like HC punk, scandinavian metalheads (well, most of them), dutch gabber, Chicago late 80s early 90s house, Detroit acid and so on...

--- --- ---

MOVIES -- that's a whole other theme (I'm no expert but I can give an opinion), - the general principle is the same.
- Commercial hits like bullshit Romantic Comedies or even pointless full of awesome effects movies like Transformers seem to only exist in Hollywood.
- The next biggest market - Bollywood in India - in my opinion - their movies are so BAD they are GOOD :D :D :D - I still live to see a seriously good Bollywood film.
- The European movie market is something like American Jazz today -- barely existent, but makes quality stuff -- and also sometimes make movies 'for the art sake' that no one understands ... Anyway Europe exports TONS of directors & actors to USA so...
- The Chinese movies are good cinema - they have their own mark - movies like Hero - or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon are priceless gems, and recently I saw a very VERY good article about Jackie Chen movie-making in China vs his movies in USA.

Concerning non-US movie stars in the POP sense, there probably aren't none. Actors in the rest of the world are struggling artists and even when get rich they remain pretty normal -- that's why Johnny Depp (and hundreds of others) migrated from USA to live in France and such.

European movies are often described by Americans as weird and boring - I guess thats what being born into pop-culture does to you, but if you want to give it a try - IMDb is your friend ( )

I'd also recommend Before The Rain ( ) probably the best Macedonian movie ever made, the cinematography is stunning and it get studied on most movie schools world-wide.

- Also, any movie by Tarkovsky ( )

or any movie by Lars von Trier ( )

OK I'm gonna stop now...